Sell Like A Leader – Episode 5
In this episode, we dive into:
– Evolved sales skills: how salespeople now need a deep understanding of their buyers’ problems and how digital literacy can help, how emotional intelligence (EQ) now outperforms traditional schmoozing, cultivating social intelligence (SQ) in sales, and the higher standards for success in today’s sales landscape.
– Data and AI in sales training and Decision-Making: how sales leaders can overcome reservations in adopting AI, the relevance of a single source of truth for data, best practices for ensuring the data fed into AI systems is accurate and useful, the impact of data-informed AI on the development of sales training programs, and how AI can enhance listening capabilities and provide actionable feedback.
– Rapid Fire Q&A
About Victoria McGlone
David Kreiger chats with Victoria McGlone, founder & CEO of Three Cliffs – Home of The AE Playbook ™. With 20 years in tech sales, she is passionate about helping salespeople make more money and learn skills they don’t get taught at business school or in traditional sales training courses. She’s also a breast cancer survivor who made it her mission to help other families with young children navigate their cancer journeys.
Podcast Key Takeaways
- AI isn’t just the future; it’s the present. Understand how leveraging artificial intelligence can optimize your sales process, from offering insights from sales calls to tailoring your training programs.
- The best sales leaders are data-driven decision-makers. But without clean, aggregated, and context-rich data, you’re missing out. Learn how to create a single source of truth for your sales data and use it to lead effectively.
- In the era where buyers are inundated and skeptical, it’s the emotional intelligence (EQ) and social intelligence (SQ) that set stellar salespeople apart. Discover how cultivating these traits can forge stronger relationships and pave the way for success.
Connects
Connect with Victoria McGlone: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vmcglone/
Victoria’s children book: https://thegoodcancer.ca/
Connect with David Kreiger: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidkreiger
Subscribe to the podcast and follow our Podcast page so you don’t miss any episodes!
Transcript
David: Hello, and welcome back to the Sell Like a Leader podcast. We have developed this podcast for revenue leaders to really give you insights from other leaders across the globe on how they manage, how they run, how they vision for high-performing sales teams so that you can learn from them, I can learn from them.
And we can dive into different topics every single month to just grow as leaders. So I'm your host, David Kreiger. I'm founder of SalesRoads, we're America's most trusted sales outsourcing and appointment setting firm. And today I am super excited to bring you an amazing sales leader, Victoria McGlone.
Just to give you a sense, Victoria is currently the founder and CEO of Three Cliffs, which is the home of the AE playbook. And if you haven't checked it out, check it out. It is the world's fastest growing training [00:01:00] course for B2B salespeople.
She has an amazing background in technology sales that spans almost 20 years, starting as an AE through global sales leadership roles, and now really bringing insights and training to salespeople across the globe, and she's just a really passionate person about helping salespeople make more money by learning skills that they don't get taught in business school. And that's something near and dear to my heart.
We'll dive into that today in some more detail.
And then just on a personal note, she is a breast cancer survivor who has made it her mission to help other families with young children navigate their own complex and emotional cancer journeys. So without further ado, I would love to jump in.
Welcome, Victoria. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.
Victoria: Thank you for having me, David. Your introduction of me is better than an introduction I could have done myself. Thanks for setting the stage so well. It's such a pleasure to be [00:02:00] here.
David: Great to have you. And with a background like that, it makes it easy to give an introduction like that. So let's jump right into it. All know sales is competitive. It is fast-paced. Things are changing all the time in the age of AI. Things are changing even faster.
And I'd love to get your perspective on how salespeople need to adapt, maintain an edge, and specifically, it was interesting as I was prepping - you talked about the lack of training in MBA programs and I went through an MBA, started a sales organization, and there was one class on sales management maybe, but not even what sales skills were.
And so I'd love to get your perspective on the current landscape in sales, both people coming out of college, the type of training they can get there, and then once they're in the real world and what training looks like from your perspective.
Victoria: Yes. Thanks, David. It's so funny. Even saying the terms "sales training" to me has always sounded like an oxymoron because, as salespeople, don't we all [00:03:00] believe we're just the best at what we do? We all have to have this overconfident edge to be successful in our career.
So I think when we say sales training, right away I think it could be quite off-putting for salespeople who naturally have an ego that would state that maybe they don't need training, and it's something that we're working with there at Three Cliffs.
But going back to the business school question that you asked, I did an undergrad in business information technology. So it was a four-year undergrad in the UK. Never had a class on sales. Now, David, maybe you and I are aging ourselves because I think as some of the younger generations do come through higher education, we are seeing a little bit more, but I could never understand why in business school, you're teaching students marketing, finance, accounting, organizational behavior, HR, all the fundamentals.
But without sales, there's simply no business for them to work in anyway. And I think that brings us into the nature versus nurture debate - is the reason why sales isn't taught as a discipline or as a skill when [00:04:00] you're getting your education intentional, because you're either born with it or you're not?
So I think this is such - so glad to be here to talk about this. Because it's a large topic and there's so many ways in the landscape today I see that people are getting their sales training, whether they're drinking from a fire hose, whether they're seeking it out themselves, whether their employer is shoving it down their throat, there's tons of ways it's happening and we can delve into those.
But yeah, I do share your frustration and confusion with the lack of formal sales training and sales discipline when we learn other functions, every other function of business that most of us salespeople don't really need to be successful in a sales career. It's an interesting one.
David: Yeah. And to build off of that, I actually think, to some degree, for lack of a better word, it's a snobby thing. You know, sales has gotten - I think a bad rap because there's so many people that don't practice it in the right way. And MBA programs, they feel like teaching sales is maybe beneath them.
But when you [00:05:00] look at it, and when I look at the people who are most successful from my MBA class, and it's even with folks who didn't go into straight sales careers, those that went into investment banking and have risen to the top, that's because they were not necessarily the best at creating spreadsheets, but they were the best at creating relationships, trust, bringing in clients.
Lawyers are the same thing, right? Partners who get promoted are oftentimes not necessarily the best litigators. They should be good. I'm not taking that away from them, but they're really good. And so I - and even just in life skills - sales is a life skill.
And so I agree with you so much that I think that these programs are missing the boat when really the number one skill that should be taught out of these, because it applies to everything. Everything you do in business and your personal life is sales and is, I think, the number one predictor in almost any career is your sales skills. That it's a big miss.
Victoria: I [00:06:00] agree. I completely agree. And it's funny. We have a joke in our family home and I can even say I have two kids. They're nine and seven, and they're selling me all the time on things that are important to them.
My nine-year-old is a Minecrafter, and he knows he only gets a set amount of screen time in a day. Whilst we don't call it sales or say we're a salesperson, I can tell you that nine-year-old can navigate a conversation to get the outcome he desires, typically around an extra 10 minutes of screen time or some new Minecraft coins or anything else.
Sales, I think just in itself, just to close off on this one, we think of that MBA program, and I think that - quadrant IQ, obviously we all know what IQ is and the higher the better. But I think there's the EQ and the SQ elements that even if MBA programs.
Sales, I think nurturing emotional intelligence and social intelligence are so fundamental as new grads are coming into the workplace now, because I do think that it, whilst you, it's hard to teach it [00:07:00] whenever I'm hiring salespeople that EQ and SQ traits are the things I can typically spot quite quickly.
And David, even chatting with you, I think we're bouncing it around here, but without those, sales goes back to that traditional, and I think maybe even 30, 40 years ago, sales had a reputation of those who can't - sell. It was almost, I think you're right, that snobby thing.
Oh, you go into sales. I remember my mom saying to me once, it was a few years ago, and I said, "Mom, do you know what I do for a job?" And she said, "Yes, you're in marketing." And I said, "But no, I'm in sales, Mom." And she said to me, bless her soul, she said, "Oh no, I tell everybody you're in marketing because it sounds much better."
I remember her saying that. And how do we get more people to jump into sales when there is this narrative? And I think even internally in companies, you've probably seen them. Salespeople get paid the most and work the least.
That is such a myth, but the best of us make it look that way. We always make it look easy. And [00:08:00] it's very frustrating for people in marketing or people in finance or people in operations to look at this group of people and say, "Hang on a minute. I'm sure you only work two hours a day and you're always on a plane at a fancy trade show, and you get free meals and you earn three times more than I do."
So there's a whole bigger conversation here, David. I feel you could go on for hours around switching the narrative on what sales is and isn't.
David: There's so much I can go in and I want to get to our next question, but I want to mention one thing that you said in there that I think is so important, which is just thinking about it in the prism of our kids. And that's something that I think about a lot. And the skills that we can teach them that we've learned in sales.
I was talking to a colleague just a few days ago. And one of the things that he's really nurtured in them is just - he has them actually sell candy bars. He wants them to make money, but the biggest thing that it's taught them is to not fear rejection.
And when you can build [00:09:00] that trait in your kids and in ourselves as salespeople and just in life, you are so much better off. And so I love how you think about the way that they negotiate with Minecraft and other things. And I think more sales leaders should think about the training they get in sales and think about how they can put that into the ethos of their kids, because that's how you build resilient, high-functioning, amazing kids who are going to be successful in their careers.
Victoria: Agreed.
David: What I'd love to get your perspective on since you've had a career in sales going on 20 years is that the sales profession has evolved a lot and I'm curious, are there different skills now that salespeople really need to have to be successful than you saw five to 10 years ago, or are the fundamentals the same? And it's the tools and the tricks and the things that we do that have evolved.
Victoria: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think the skills required to be successful have changed. I think the [00:10:00] bar is higher. I think many years ago, before the evolution of tech and all the things that we've seen, a salesperson could be successful with a great personality and a bit of hustle, you know, and don't get me wrong. I love those two things too.
We all need those, but you started seeing that generation of salespeople, maybe without a formal education or a business background or a tech background, but they were really nice and really chatty and they worked hard and they hit their number.
And I think fast forward to where we are today, those skills are table stakes, but I think we're now - digital literacy and it goes without saying, I think is again, going back to my kids, I look at how quick they are even now at seven and nine navigating their way through their computers and their Chromebooks and all the things that - we look at that in our career, I think.
Digital literacy is so important. We're no longer selling on features and benefits, particularly in tech and particularly in solution sales, that salespeople now need a really deep understanding [00:11:00] of their buyer's problems, and digital literacy, I believe, underpins that.
If you're selling into the C-suite - and I remember this, I learned this firsthand. One of my first big girl AE jobs, I was selling to the C-suite, and it was a cybersecurity product. So I was always selling to the chief information security officer.
And I was a young 25, 26-year-old girl having these meetings with these - look at what that demographic of person typically is, and the word persona, I really don't like anymore - they're typically, CISOs are older, middle-aged men normally, and I love seeing women in this seat.
And to be successful at that role wasn't about me going in and talking through a list of features and benefits of my product. They didn't care. It was about me really having that understanding about what really keeps this person awake at night. Why is this guy in this job? Where does he need to spend his money? What are those pain points?
And I think those skills, a couple of [00:12:00] decades ago, when the internet wasn't around, even doing that research was hard. And there wasn't the sharing of information like there is today. So features and benefits would cover it.
And when we hire salespeople, I think, and when we train them today, and we look at the skills they have, I always have a principle on the three A's, and you've probably heard this, David. Attitude, Activity, and Ability. I will hire if you have attitude and your activity is right, because I fundamentally believe the ability part can be taught.
But that attitude and activity, when we look at sales discipline, and there'll be leaders who disagree with me, and I love this debate, they hire strictly on ability. This person, David's got 10 years experience and background in cybersecurity, so I'm hiring him for this role. And if their attitude and their activity isn't there, it doesn't actually matter how capable they are.
I think when we look at skills that make for a well-rounded person today, that digital literacy, the true deep business and technological understanding, to be able to [00:13:00] solution sell. And the final one I'd add there is the ability through EQ, SQ, and IQ to navigate through a multi-stakeholder organization. I think previously that wasn't as critical.
Your buyer was one person, one or two people, you knew them. You were in control of the situation. And now, we know that in an enterprise sale now there's anywhere between eight and 12 stakeholders. So those skills that salespeople need, you got to figure out who's what and who sits where and who's important and who's an influencer and who's a distraction and who's an ally and all those things that we can delve deep into.
But does that answer your question, David?
David: Yeah, it does. And so two things I think really solidify there. And I think things have become both more competitive over the last five to 10 years and buyers have gotten more inundated with both external sales messaging and also just internal stressors and things [00:14:00] like that.
And so it boils down to those individuals who have that EQ that is different than - and I don't think it was EQ back in the day, but that salesperson who knows how to schmooze and just have a good time and take people out, right?
And that's how the connection was made 10 plus years ago, right? And you think of that salesperson going out and golfing and whatnot. It's that person who can make the connection and understand the issues that person is having, and not just that person, understand the issues that their whole team is having and differentiate between each of those.
Because every one of those five to 10 people, when you're multi-threading within an organization, is different. And so relationships are as important as they were five, 10, 20 years ago, when the steak dinner was really important, but the way we have those relationships, if I'm understanding what you're saying, is that is different and it's a different skill set.
Sometimes it's almost an antithetical skill set of really understanding and [00:15:00] going deep on people to build those relationships versus knowing how to schmooze them, for lack of a better word.
Victoria: And anyone can schmooze, right? And don't get me wrong. I've done a fair share of it and there's still a place for it in the B2B world, but anybody can have a corporate credit card and take someone out for dinner now. And I even think at that C-suite, if you're selling into that C-suite or that senior vice president level and above, actually, they see through it now.
How many dinner invites do CISOs get in a week or a month from vendors? And they have to sit through a very expensive steak dinner. I'm sure there's a nice glass of wine, but those days of closing business in that way for me are over.
And I've always tried to instill that in my teams that if that's the only level at which you operate, there's different roles for you in the organization. There's a place for schmoozing and networking and high-level conversation.
But if you can't go any deeper and really understand that person's pain and really understand their team's pain and really understand what's keeping them awake at night, [00:16:00] truly, then someone else is going to take the deal from underneath you, in my opinion.
David: I couldn't agree more. And I think this leads me into the other, or the next question I really wanted to get your perspective on. And I think it's out there - people are talking about it a lot, but I think what you've just talked about is an interesting segue to it. Because we're talking about those relationships, we're talking about EQ.
And in the context of that, let's talk about AI and where does AI help salespeople in being able to have the skills or have the information that they need to be able to build relationships and sell in the way that you're laying out? And what are the limitations currently with AI, and maybe, and this is harder to answer, but where, as we all think about our role as salespeople over the next three, five, 10 years, where is AI going, and how are you incorporating that into training?
Victoria: Yeah, it's the million-dollar question, isn't it? And I have to be honest, I'm an [00:17:00] early adopter of tech. AI for me was a real scary one.
My husband and I both work in tech. He's the opposite. He was straight in with ChatGPT when it came out and throwing all this stuff at me, and I was really resistant because I think we go back to that first topic here. Salespeople don't need help. We're good at what we do.
My ego was almost too big and I didn't think it was relevant. And now, we fast forward a year, 18 months into this spiraling evolution. And I think there's absolutely a huge role and a huge benefit to what AI can bring to the table for salespeople. If the data that it's helping you with, the data that it's working with is real and is accurate and is true.
An example here, these call intelligence platforms, Gong and Chorus, and all the big guys, they started just recording sales calls. That's quite valuable because before that, remember when sales leaders had to put a headphone set on and listen in the call.
So we started there with recording of sales calls. Interesting, because you can have a thousand sales calls [00:18:00] recorded, and then your question is, what now? And we've seen the evolutions of those AI-based sales intelligence tools, where we're now at a point where call reporting. So what?
Then we get calls transcribing. I remember being a sales leader and having my reps' calls emailed to me. Handy, but now I have to read 600 emails a night. So that's not super helpful. I think where we are now, certainly from a sales leadership perspective is the use of AI to be able to actually gather insights from those 600 calls and give them to me, give that insight to me and to the reps really quickly.
So I am absolutely obsessed with some of the live sales intelligence tools now, with where they are. So I think it really could help teams scale. You could now manage a team of X amount of reps much more efficiently if you're able to, for example, gain intelligence from 200 win-loss calls.
That's really interesting. And I'm not talking about a marketing person going through those line by line in a transcription, I'm talking [00:19:00] about using AI to your advantage to summarize that information and get deeper insights.
And so I think personalizing those learning experiences as a rep, and one day I will go back to being a rep. I love being an IC. I always talk about how it was one of my favorite points in my career. I would be using these sales intelligence tools every day. I want to hear the reason my customers are buying, the reason they're not.
I really want to get to the bottom of objection handling. You know the best rep on the team? I want to hear his or her calls. I want to understand insights that I don't currently have into what they're doing that I could be doing. So I think it's all around almost moving that ego that salespeople typically have sitting on our shoulder to the side and saying, how can I use this to learn more, get better, and do it quicker?
David: Call listening is just the number one way to improve your skills. And it's listening to your own calls, your good calls to remind yourself what went well, your bad calls and forcing yourself to self [00:20:00] critique.
And then listening to your teammates' calls, both - we're a sales outsourcing company. So we work with a lot of different companies and have different programs. But I think I encourage our team to listen to calls from people on their team, but calls from other teams, because there's lots of great nuggets that you can learn from everywhere.
And the more you listen, the more you learn and the more you sell. And so I think that is a really good insight. I think a lot of times when I ask these questions to people, they talk about how to use AI for emailing and things like that. But really, it's reinforcing some of the fundamentals of what really helps reps and managers get better. And that's just listening to the customer, listening to their team performing and curating that information more efficiently.
Victoria: Exactly. And we use the term listening. We only have two ears each and 24 hours in a day. There is only so much listening a human can do. What I love obviously about using AI for this is just to be able to amplify that times a thousand. [00:21:00]
Listening to one sales call that's 30 minutes long to give a rep feedback. Now, I remember my largest team, I had 26 reps, and listening to one of their calls in a week, and preparing feedback. Literally 26 hours of my week, and it doesn't scale, and team growth can't scale, and you end up being the bottleneck, and you can't possibly give that feedback or that intelligence. So for me, AI is only as good as what you put in.
So feed these engines with the right amount of calls, give them a thousand calls, give them all of those transcripts. Now you come back to me after those thousand calls and tell me the top five value points that my reps seem to be missing.
Because that's how you build a training program that they're going to need.
David: That's fantastic. So we're coming to the end before rapid fire questions, but I'm gonna ask one more and from the sales training that you have done for the sales leaders that are listening here, is there one skill that you feel can give them a [00:22:00] competitive advantage in 2024 that they should lean into, they should learn more about, they should develop, that can really help them and their sales teams grow? Crush their goals this year.
Victoria: Yeah. If I were a sales leader, and when I go back to managing a large team again, the ability to integrate and leverage the power of the data that your organization is sitting on to help you make informed decisions and a leadership strategy is so key. I think so often in sales, and I'm guilty of this as well.
We lead with emotion. We have these sales happy ears. You know, that feeling when you get off a customer call, it's gone so well. And you've got your verbal commitment. Emotion takes over, and we make big decisions based on how we feel. And I think that's a big part of being in sales.
And if I was looking at a business now and taking over a new leadership position, day one, task one, find your single source of truth for data and ensure the company is aligned on that. [00:23:00] There is no point having you as a sales leader, looking at one set of data.
And we've all been here, look at Salesforce. I have my dashboard, and all my KPIs are of one color, but then marketing has another dashboard. And theirs is all the different color. And we're not even using the same data.
So I think you really using your teams, using your rev ops team, using your data analytics team, using AI. And getting buy-in for a single source of truth of data is fundamental to helping you make decisions and build strategy that take emotion out of it and look at what's in front of you and make sure everyone's looking at the same thing.
David: The number of sales leaders that I work with, I talked to, and they just don't have a fundamental grasp on the data, both because I think it's hard to aggregate it. And also clean it up and make sure you've got clean data because the reps aren't necessarily filling things in right. It's hard to create the right type of dashboards. It's trite, but it's true.
You can't manage what you can't measure, right? [00:24:00] And so you're flying blind if you don't create at least a basic dashboard. And I have the mentality of make it bad. Make it better. At least put something into place that has some of the fundamentals of what you were looking for.
And then you can iterate over time. But sometimes it just feels so overwhelming to build something that nothing really gets built, or you just have a whole bunch of garbage.
Victoria: And this is that age-old sales and marketing disalignment problem that is tail as old as time. And we've all seen it where you're in a QBR or a management meeting and marketing's KPIs are showing green and sales is showing red.
I'm such a believer that there is no way that if sales aren't hitting their number, marketing's KPIs should be green. For example, that single source of truth, that shared funnel data. Stop picking the data out that makes you look good, that you want to see, that your happy ears want to present to people and agree on the set of data. As you said, make it bad, make it better.
Let's look at what's really going on, because there's [00:25:00] no way your dashboard can be green if sales are missing the number, or we have an absolutely disastrous sales team and that's a whole other discussion, but more often than not, one group wants to present KPIs that make them look good. And the other group doesn't. Can't stand it.
And I think that is the historical sales and marketing war zone that we've all seen over and over again.
David: Absolutely. So we'll end that part on the war zone, and we will move into rapid fire.
So I'm gonna ask you a few questions that I love asking each of our guests. Just if you can answer with the first thing that pops in your mind that would be awesome. All right.
Favorite business leadership or sales book?
Victoria: Tough one for me. I go back to it again and again, Chris Voss, Never Split the Difference. Most of you will probably listen to it, that art of negotiation and reading that book transformed my career. Just understanding that both sides of a negotiation, it's not a battle of wills where someone wins and someone loses, and someone's good and someone's bad.
I think hearing a [00:26:00] former FBI hostage negotiator talk about how to influence both sides of the conversation so you both win at the end. One of my first recommendations to any team I ever work with. I love it.
David: What's the one thing people don't give enough value or attention to in leadership?
Victoria: Easy. I think empathy. And I say this all the time, as we move on in our careers, I don't know whether we get older, or more crotchety, or we just can't be bothered, but I find empathy can have a massive impact on your effectiveness as a leader.
And whilst it's a soft skill, maybe it's the woman and the mum in me, I don't know, that thinks it's so crucial compared to even hard skills, like Business Acumen and Strategic Leadership. I personally think empathy is the soft glue that holds sales teams together.
You know, letting your team know that you understand truly the boots they're walking in, you've walked in them yourself, and better still, you'll put those boots on again, any day of the week, and walk alongside them if you need to. So it sounds super [00:27:00] cheesy, but for me, I try really hard to lead with empathy, even on the days when my patience is running quite low.
David: Favorite quote, mantra, or saying that inspires you as a sales leader?
Victoria: Winston Churchill said once, "Success is not final, failure is not fatal. It's the courage to continue that counts." And I teach it to my kids right the way through to my senior salespeople.
You are not defined by your last quarter in sales. We know that you're only as good as the last mountain you've stood on the top of. And failure isn't fatal, but pick yourself up, pull yourself together and have that courage to continue. And it's on my wall. And I tell my kids when they can't shoot basketball hoops or they're missing the soccer net. Same thing. You know, it's not about whether you succeed or fail. It's the fact we're going to keep going.
David: Last one. What is the most important goal you're working on right now? And maybe it involves a book. I think, but maybe not.
Victoria: This is one of my first public places sharing it. So I have published a book called The Good [00:28:00] Cancer. It's an oxymoron because we all know no cancer is good, but I wrote a children's book to help explain to young children and for them to understand an early-stage curable cancer diagnosis.
And it essentially is an illustrated 32-page children's book and helps explain to young children that while someone that you love might have cancer, it doesn't always mean they're going to die, and there can be a happy ending on the other side.
And it's an illustrated book that's dedicated to my two kids, who did navigate this journey with me last year at the age of six and eight. And we're all better. We're all healthy. And this book is going to long continue the story.
So thanks for letting me share.
David: When are you looking to have it out there so people can check it out?
Victoria: Next couple of weeks. So thegoodcancer.ca is where you will find it, and it will be available on all major Amazon marketplaces as well as bookstores.
David: That's amazing. Wonderful. Victoria, this was awesome. I love the conversation. I got a lot of insights. This was a great conversation. Just wide ranging from MBAs to the war [00:29:00] between marketing and sales.
And so really appreciate all the valuable knowledge that you shared here with us today. And if people want to continue the conversation, learn more about you, the book that's coming out, how can they connect with you?
Victoria: Uh, my business is Three Cliffs, as you mentioned, www.threecliffs.ca. You'll find the AE playbook there. That's an eight-hour pre-recorded training course that I built for B2B salespeople. So check that out and you can get in touch with me there as well.
David: Yeah, please check it out. As you can tell, Victoria has got a lot of amazing knowledge that can help your sales team. And that's it for today. That's another episode of the Sell Like a Leader podcast. So thank you so much for tuning in, joining us here today, spending 30 minutes of your time trying to build your knowledge around selling like a leader.
My name is David Kreiger. Always feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. Love to hear what you think about the episode. If there's anything that you'd like us to cover and you can always check us out at salesroads.com. [00:30:00] So look forward to seeing you next time.
Thanks again, Victoria.
