Sell Like A Leader – Episode 31

In this episode, David and Lee challenge the traditional discovery meeting approach that most salespeople rely on. 

Here are the questions they tackle:

  • Why do traditional discovery meetings fail?
  • How can salespeople provide value in first meetings?
  • How to create “consultation cliffhangers” that make prospects eager for the next meeting?

Sales leaders and revenue teams will leave with fresh ideas to rethink their approach, engage prospects more effectively, and ultimately drive higher results.

About Lee Salz

Lee is a world-renowned Sales Differentiation strategist, bestselling author of seven business books, and founder of Sales Architects.

He challenges old-school, ineffective selling methods and helps sales organizations win more deals at the prices they want by transforming how they sell.

Lee is also named #6 in the world on Global Gurus’ Top 30 Sales Thought Leaders for 2025 and the 2022 Institute for Sales Excellence Speaker of the Year. 

Podcast Key Takeaways

  • Traditional discovery meetings must be replaced by client-centric consultations that provide prospects with meaningful value and make them wiser about their circumstances.
  • People act on emotion, justify with logic. Discovery calls lean on logic; consultations spark emotional connection, which actually moves deals forward.
  • Lee explains that a 60-minute discovery call leaves a prospect with less than 6 minutes of retained value. If nothing memorable is delivered, there’s nothing to anchor the next meeting.
  • Stop trying to do everything in the first meeting. A good consultation creates momentum, not overwhelm.

Connects

Connect with Lee Salz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leesalz/

Connect with David Kreiger: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidkreiger

Subscribe to the podcast and follow our Podcast LinkedIn page so you don’t miss any episodes!

Transcript

David: Welcome back to another episode of the Sell Like a Leader podcast, the podcast for revenue leaders who are on a mission to cultivate a high performing sales team within their organization. I'm your host, David Krieger, founder of SalesRoads, America's most trusted sales outsourcing and appointment setting company.

Today, we bring you another amazing revenue leader, Lee Salz. So I had the good fortune to get to see and meet Lee last month when he was down in South Florida and gave just an amazing talk to a group of entrepreneurs. 

And I said, I've gotta have you on my podcast, you gotta talk to my listeners. And so if you don't know Lee, and I'm sure many of you do, he's the bestselling author of seven business books. And what I love about Lee is he challenges old school sales thinking. 

And so really looks at some of the methods that all of us have [00:01:00] come to know, and we're gonna talk about first meetings and discovery calls today, and really makes us think about it in a different way. And so I really wanted to share some of his insights with everyone here today. 

And lastly, just to toot his horn a little bit, just to give you a sense of who we're talking to, he is number six in the world on Global Gurus' Top 30 Sales Thought Leaders for 2025. So really impressive stuff, Lee. And thank you so much for making the time here to join us.

Lee: Oh, thank you for having me.

David: Well, let us launch in. You just came out with your latest book, The First Meeting Differentiator, and it provides an interesting framework for creating client-centric consultations, which we'll dive into what you mean by that. You know, trying to find a way, I think, to differentiate—

Lee: Well, you just said my favorite word, by the way: differentiate. It's even my license plate, Differentiator.

David: Yeah. Well, I think it's so true. I mean, we, and we all have to, [00:02:00] maybe we get lazy. I don't know what it is, but we don't find creative ways to really cut through the clutter. And so let's frame it with the concept that you, I believe, are espousing, which is that traditional discovery meetings must die. 

And that is kind of the bedrock of the sales process. And so can you just give us your thoughts on, you know, what is wrong with the traditional discovery approach that most of us use?

Lee: Yeah. Well, you just gave the title of chapter one of The First Meeting Differentiator. You're right, the discovery meeting needs to die, needs to go away. Here's why. How do salespeople prepare for a discovery meeting? Well, I'm gonna make a list of questions I'm gonna ask, and the message points I'm gonna share. 

And our listeners will probably say, yeah, so what's wrong with that? What meaningful value does the person we're meeting with get out of that interaction? I know what you're thinking. They're gonna learn about my company, they're gonna learn about my stuff. [00:03:00] Ah, it's a big fail. Here's why. There's two types of sales, and I'm gonna use a bathroom environment to depict those two. You ready?

David: I dunno, am I? Go for it.

Lee: You buy toilet paper. I sell toilet paper. But you're buying my competitor's toilet paper and I'm saying you should buy my toilet paper because it's superior. That's a takeaway sale. That's the environment most salespeople are in. Lemme give you the other scenario. You buy toilet paper. I sell bidet. It's an alternative way of addressing an issue—that's a demand gen sell. 

But like I said, most salespeople are in this takeaway environment, which means they already have a provider in place. So you are saying to them, I know you have 400 things to do on your plate. Put those aside and meet with me. And what you get out of that is learning about my stuff. Yeah, that's just not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. 

But you know, if you think about the times when you've gone to the doctor, [00:04:00] you go to the doctor for two reasons: to become wiser about your circumstances and to understand potential remedies. You sure wouldn't go there if you thought you were a science project, that the doctor was gonna gather all this information, but it was all for the doctor's benefit. 

That's what discovery is. That's what discovery is. That's the problem with it. Now, the medical community doesn't call their meetings discovery. They call them consultations. And that's the expression that I've embraced. When I look at that first meeting, it's a consultation, 'cause what that implies is the person you're meeting with also has to get meaningful value from that interaction. 

Well, what do they want? If they're gonna take a meeting with you, they want to come away wiser and learn something that helps them in their role, helps their company, or best of all, both. Now, what I'm sharing here [00:05:00] is probably new for a lot of salespeople, and I got a little something to help out. I'm sure your listeners like free things.

David: Absolutely.

Lee: Okay, here's gonna be a tough URL to remember. If you go to meaningfulvalue.com, you can download my tip sheet on how to provide meaningful value during first meetings. I give you 10 different ways to provide meaningful value during those first meetings.

David: So let's dive into that then. And I definitely recommend folks, I've gone to some of your sites. There's some really great meaningful value things that you can actually download from Lee. Let's dive into it 'cause I think you threw out a lot of different great nuggets. So first, I think you're absolutely right. 

We approach a discovery meeting and we think about sort of our customization is thinking about what are all the questions we're gonna ask that person, right? And then we use that to set up what our presentation, where we're kind of talking at them, but you know, the better discovery calls, it's a little bit of an interaction, talking about [00:06:00] them in the context of our product or service. 

And so how would you recommend that salespeople prep a little differently? So if you're not advocating—and maybe, also, and I'm throwing two things at you a little bit—how much of the questioning and probing does play into this? Right? And how do you reconcile all this? Because it's a lot of things to put in place in 30 minutes usually, which is what you get for a discovery often.

Lee: That's if you're lucky. By the way, every time you say discovery, I'm gonna drink. So here we go.

David: Okay. Consultation. I'm sorry.

Lee: There we go. That's what I thought you said. Okay. So I mentioned before, when we think of discovery, our planning process is make a list of questions and message points we're gonna share. But if you think about it, there's an infinite number of questions you can ask, and only so many someone's gonna tolerate before they go, okay, enough. 

And you could talk about your company and what you offer for about 16 hours, but no one's giving you a 16 hour meeting. And I don't think you'd want one anyway. [00:07:00] Again, the flaws of discovery. But here's my counsel and we see it through the lens of a consultation. 

We're gonna reverse engineer that first meeting, and we're gonna challenge ourselves with this question: it was a great first meeting, it was a great consultation if I accomplished what? What is the criteria for success? Unless you're expected to walk out of that first meeting with an order, which most salespeople are not. So what is that criteria for success? 

What information do you need to learn during that first meeting, for example? So you make a list of all the outcomes that would meet your definition of a successful first meeting. Then it becomes a project plan. So imagine in the first column, here's all my outcomes that I'm shooting for across the rows. 

What questions am I gonna ask? What information am I gonna share? What actions am I gonna take? So back to your point, what questions am I gonna ask? Only the ones tied to the [00:08:00] outcomes I've identified. What information am I gonna share? 

Only the information tied to the outcomes that I've identified. What actions am I gonna take? Only the actions tied to the outcomes that I'm looking to achieve. So now it becomes a very specific project plan, and now you have a sophisticated way to approach that first meeting.

David: And so we can even do a real time case study here. So I'll give you a little bit about how we at SalesRoads approach our consultations—not discovery. Okay.

Lee: Oh, I thought I was gonna have to drink. Okay, good. Good.

David: I'm changing my terminology. And how we then funnel that into the second meeting, which is where we feel like we deliver value. So what we do try to do in our consultations is we [00:09:00] do exactly what you said. We have a list of questions and then we try to give them an overview of SalesRoads, our capabilities and how we do things. And then if we're a fit, and we also do espouse what you espouse, which is lose early. We qualify a lot in that first meeting.

Lee: Amen. Amen. Yeah.

David: So it's a qualification both on both sides, right? Whether we're qualified for them, whether they're qualified for us. And then we go into what we call in a second meeting, our success analysis. And that's where we provide some value in the sense that we take that information and we try to build a calculator. 

We try to show them what is possible for prospecting in their industry, with the personas they want to go after. Look at their ARR, look at their close ratio and show them whether this type of go-to-market motion makes sense. Then we also build a small little strategy around what we understand about their market, and it's almost a little mini playbook, which I think is what you would say would be meaningful value. 

They can walk away with that little playbook, they can use it themselves, things like that. But the way we've structured is we need that—I'm gonna say discovery until I switch to a consultation, [00:10:00] because I don't think we're doing a consultation, we're doing the discovery. So in our traditional discovery, we're not providing that much value in that first meeting. It's not till the second meeting that we get to that.

Lee: Okay. So, and it can be a stage process. The first thing is how do we get them to accept that first meeting?

David: Right.

Lee: And so it sounds like you're pretty successful getting them to go from meeting one to meeting two.
David: Yeah, as long as we're both qualified for each other, people really do love getting into meeting two 'cause there is a lot of value that we're sharing with them.

Lee: Right. So getting to meeting one, you may wanna look at re-engineering that a little bit and say, okay, it doesn't have to be a ton, but some type of meaningful value. So I'll give you an example of what executives consider meaningful value: that they can learn a best practice in their industry that can help them. 

Maybe it's a strategy that their competitors are using that they're missing out on, that's working really well. A creative way to reduce cost, [00:11:00] an opportunity to drive revenue, an opportunity to more effectively align with compliance. That's what I mean about learning. So what you could potentially do with that first meeting is, I'm assuming you've been doing this for a while.

David: Yes.

Lee: Okay, so you have a track record, you have a history. So when we get together, I'll share with you what companies in like industries are doing to creatively reach prospects and get that pipeline going, which gets to the heart of what they want. So now they said, oh, if I take a meeting with you, I'm gonna get something out. I'm gonna learn something. I'll take that meeting. 

So during that first meeting, it's not so much that you're talking with them about what their solution would be, you're saying here's what's going on in the industry. Prospecting's never been harder than it is today. You know, getting somebody on the phone, getting someone to respond to email, et cetera, et cetera. 

But you know something, if you have the right [00:12:00] recipe, it can work. And that's what we have. And so then you can talk about how, if you have other players in that industry, great. You can talk about how other industries are using a service like yours to get those first meetings teed up.

David: Yeah, that's interesting. I can think of a little bit about that. What we potentially could do is do a little bit of a generic industry slide based upon their industry and what folks in that industry see from a range. 

Now, the reason we can't really give them specific metrics is a lot of times we need to really make sure we understand specifically for them, who do they wanna target? What is their value prop, things like that. But maybe there's something general, which does add value that says in your industry, this is the range you generally see. This is, you know, some of the success metrics you generally see, when calling into state and local government or something to that effect.

Lee: Sure. And it doesn't have to be percentages. It's a best practice. [00:13:00] So a best practice could be you take that top talent. And one of the things I hear from salespeople all the time, you're sure you do as well: if I can get in front of someone, I'm gonna knock it outta the park.

David: Right.

Lee: I'm struggling to get in front of someone. That's my challenge. And so you could say, we could take that burden off their plate. And that's what a lot of companies are doing today. They're recognizing where they have strengths and saying, let's leverage a strength. 

And just like any other function in a company, let's outsource where we can be more effective. Right. We outsource IT functions. We outsource help desk. We outsource so many different things today because we recognize this is our core competency. Let's stay focused on that and others who have greater expertise in a particular arena, let's let them shine.

David: That's great.

Lee: But here, but here's the key. Once you define that meaningful value, you fold it into that prospecting messaging.

David: Yeah, so it doesn't, that's the key insight too, here, right? It's not just [00:14:00] making your first meeting more effective, it's getting more first meetings.

Lee: It is getting more, right? When you're looking at these meetings, we're on the buy side, we're going, okay, if I'm not interested in buying anything right now, there's no point in meeting with the salesperson 'cause I'm not gonna get anything out of it. But if there is meaningful value to be gotten, then let's tell them so they don't have that erroneous perception of time invested with me.

David: Yeah, I think that that's a really, really interesting insight. So, let's pivot a little bit, but I think that it's probably related in some degrees. You know, you've introduced the concept of empathetic expertise and so, you know, can you talk to me a little bit about how this approach helps salespeople engage prospects emotionally and how, you know, does that fit into your whole strategy of differentiation?

Lee: Yeah, so there's an expression in sales. It's been [00:15:00] around since the beginning of sales time: people buy based on emotion, justify their decisions with logic. I'll bet you can't find a salesperson who has not heard that expression. Every salesperson on the planet has heard the expression, people buy based on emotion, justify their decisions with logic. 

Now, find a salesperson that puts it into practice. I'll bet you the deeds of my house. If you and I recorded 99 first meetings, all sale types, all industries all around the world, 99 of that 100, if not all 100, the entire conversation is logic. Every salesperson's heard that people buy based on emotion, justify their decisions with logic, and no one's doing it. 

And I really struggled with that. I was like, I don't understand why isn't anybody doing it. And then I finally had this epiphany. I have two sons that played college baseball, and I remember when they were little kids and they first learned the game, and the coaches would say, now the name of the game is o [00:16:00] hit home runs. 

And big smile back up. Got it. Hit home runs. They didn't hit home runs until you taught them how to hit home runs. That's what we're missing in sales. We haven't taught sales. We preach to them, but we haven't taught them how to appropriately engage emotion when selling. So we know that we need to do it, we don't know how to do it. 

So in chapter five of The First Meeting Differentiator, I introduced a concept called empathetic expertise, which is a way of engaging emotions properly when selling. I'll give you an example. We might ask a question during a meeting, like, what's the biggest challenge you face in your business today? Well, what's wrong with that question? Well, it's a logic question. As a result of that question, I'm gonna get information back. I don't want information. I wanna know how they feel about the information they're sharing with me. 

I want color, I want flavor, I want texture. So what if we phrase [00:17:00] the question this way? What's that one thing in your business that's like, oh, we gotta figure this out. What is that one thing? I'll bet you felt that question. And this is just a podcast interview, so you can imagine asking a question like that in the field. I'm not gonna get information back. I'm gonna find out how they feel about the information that they're sharing.

David: Yeah.

Lee: Another thing is we've told salespeople we share features with benefits 'cause that's what you do in discovery. Not in a consultation. No one wants to be lectured on features and benefits. If you're gonna talk features and benefits, bring a pillow with you to the meeting 'cause you're gonna put 'em to sleep. As a matter of fact, there's a chapter in the book, "Features, Benefits, and Boredom." No one wants to be lectured on your features and benefits, but you know what? Everyone likes and loves a well-told story.

David: Yeah.

Lee: So develop emotive client stories rather than lecturing on features and benefits. Embed those into the [00:18:00] stories because there are tons of studies that say, if you just share facts and figures independently, people are highly unlikely to remember it. But when they're embedded in stories, they're much more likely to remember it.

David: So let's break that down and, using SalesRoads as a case study, since I'm pretty familiar with our consultation call. A lot of times people even ask at the beginning 'cause we like to understand what they're trying to get out of the meeting. And they wanna understand our methodology, they wanna understand how we're structured, who our SDRs are, things like that. 

And so, if I'm understanding correctly, and then maybe you can put some color on it, it's not that we don't tell them those things, but if we can tell them also the why. 

So for instance, we don't just give you an SDR, we give you a whole SDR department with managers and things like that. And then how that fit into a client and how it transformed their business is [00:19:00] more of the story that we add into that. So they're both getting that information, but they're getting it in a way that isn't boring.

Lee: Right, so it starts with something like this: what you shared with me today reminds me of another client that we have, very similar issues. They were having challenges with A, B, and C. So what we did for them was we put together an SDR team who did this, that, and the other, and they absolutely loved what we did because here's what happened, da, da, da, da, the results. 

So all the features and benefits are embedded within that.

David: Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. And lemme ask you this because I think this is a debate that a lot of folks have around first meetings. It's having the slide deck or no slide deck, right? And so where do you come in on that and how do some of these principles fit into the strategy?

Lee: Great question. So the overarching objective of a first meeting, there's one: [00:20:00] pique a high enough level of interest that they want to keep engaging with you afterwards. And if you accept that premise, you recognize I don't need to ask them everything. I don't need to tell 'em everything. I don't need to show them everything because here's something else, they're not gonna remember it. 

Are you familiar with the name Hermann Ebbinghaus? He was a researcher in the late 1800s, and he developed what's known as the Forgetting Curve. And it's still valid today, and what he found was that people forget 50% of what they learned within 24 hours and remember less than 10% a week later. 

So let's do that math. You have a one hour first meeting. They remember six minutes a week later. That's ouch. That's pain. So one of the things that I see salespeople do way too often is too much in that first meeting. So I'm gonna ask some questions. I'm gonna pull out the slide deck. I'm gonna do a demo. I'm gonna bring my CEO with me. 

Oh, I'm gonna bring my implementation person with me. I'm gonna bring my CIO with me. I'm gonna bring six case studies and on and on and on. So you load up that first meeting with all [00:21:00] of that. None of it's done effectively because you try to do too much. 

And they don't remember it anyway, so my counsel to salespeople is pace the process. Unless you're expected to walk out of a first meeting with an order, pace the process. And so the exercise that I mentioned earlier about identifying the outcomes, the criteria for success, that's a function of that. 

Once you've nailed down that project plan and you recognize I don't have to do it all in one meeting, and it's not advantageous to my deal anyway. I mean, let's say you squeeze in your demo, you know, they don't remember it all. So what are you gonna do? 

Go back and say, I'm sure you don't remember this. Let's do it again. That's just not gonna happen. So the demo's the next meeting. Wanna meet the CEO, that's another meeting. I work with a group and they have samples and I tell 'em, don't bring all the samples. 

Bring just a couple so they can get a taste. But the next meeting is where you bring the specific samples that they want to see. And I refer to that [00:22:00] as a consultation cliffhanger. I borrowed from the TV and movie world. So look at what they do in television. 

Last episode of the season, they have a cliffhanger, which means there's some unresolved issue. And they do that for one reason: to get your eyeballs on the screen episode one of the next season. And the best example of that is a TV show from the 1970s, Dallas. And there was this executive in an oil company, J.R. Ewing. Last episode of the season, he got shot. 

You don't know who did it. All summer long, the water cooler talk was who done it. Right? And the sole objective was to get you back for episode one of the next season, and the record for that still stands today. So we do that in sales. Instead of us begging for the next meeting, they're saying, so when can we get together? 

And [00:23:00] so I can see that system. When can we get together and bring your CIO in? And now we get the retention, we get the engagement we're looking for. We've paced the process.

David: Yeah, and I think that's with the process that I described, I think one of the things that really has worked nicely for us, not intentionally doing a "who shot J.R." cliffhanger, but, you know, because we actually do need to spend some time and think about it. Everybody wants to know what can you expect from a program like this? 

And, you know, we could just give them numbers from the hip, but it's too important to do that in the wrong way because they're basing all their KPIs, their metrics, their investment based upon that. And so we need to spend, you know, a day or two to put that together. But that becomes the cliffhanger. 

And so that second meeting becomes really, they're really excited to see what we can do for them and how many appointments we can book.

Lee: And are you normally converting the deal at the end of that next appointment, at the second [00:24:00] appointment, or is there more?

David: From there, our sales process is, if they're interested, we'll send them an agreement. And so a lot of times, we will convert. We're not high pressure, so, you know, sometimes it can take a little bit, they're trying to figure it out. But that is, it's really that two step sales process.

Lee: Okay. Got it.

David: Lastly, here, I do want to get to something we talked about a little bit at the beginning, but I think is hugely important. And I think it plays into the whole idea that as salespeople, time management is super critical. 

We only have so many hours in the day to be able to do all the different tasks and close the deals and hit our quota, and a big part of that is chasing the wrong deals. Salespeople struggling with qualifying deals, and as you had mentioned in the talk last month, you know, if you're gonna lose a deal, lose it early, which I definitely espouse.

Lee: Amen.

David: And so talk to us about the framework for how you coach salespeople to do that in that first consultation meeting.

Lee: Yeah, and you're [00:25:00] right, time is the most precious commodity that salespeople have, and top salespeople are so sensitive about every minute they invest, and that's the way they look at it as an investment of time. 

So what we want to do, knowing that we don't get any more or fewer minutes than anyone else, is scrutinize every opportunity and determine as quickly as possible, should we or should we not pursue it. And that in top talent, top salespeople, they're masters of that. 

And I look at the first meeting as being where I'm gonna make my go/no-go decision. I'm gonna do some qualifying ahead of time. But that first meeting, one of the to-dos on my list for a successful first meeting is that I've qualified it and I've made a decision: pursue it or not. Now what a lot of salespeople are using for that is a tool called an Ideal Client Profile, an ICP. And if you have one of those, please throw it away. 

You don't want one of those. Here's why. An ideal client profile [00:26:00] says, if all the stars were to align, this is the kind of business we'd love to have. It's like a lottery ticket. It's a one in a gazillion chance that you'll ever stumble across one of these opportunities. 

I mean, if you look up the word ideal in the dictionary, you see expressions like "only existing in one's mind." As if sales isn't hard enough, you're giving me a tool that's only in my head. But what every salesperson should have is a Target Client Profile and I'm not wordsmithing. It's a totally different concept. 

A Target Client Profile says this is who will perceive the most meaningful value in what we offer, which gives deals the greatest likelihood of coming to fruition. So now we know the circumstances where we're gonna be the most successful. That becomes the foundation tool for qualifying. I've got my Target Client Profile here. I've got this opportunity over here. What's the match or lack thereof between those two? 

And that's what's gonna help me make that [00:27:00] go/no-go decision.

David: Yeah, I think it's super, super important and I think a lot of times we latch onto deals, you know, you don't have enough things in your pipeline and so you wanna hold onto everything. But if you think about it, you know, if you are spending time pursuing that individual that never is gonna close, you could have spent a whole bunch of time finding other prospects that could come into—

Lee: Yes, that's right. That's exactly—

David: Yeah, it's a key skill set. So, I think that you've given the listeners a lot to digest here and think about as far as challenging how they're currently doing their discovery calls and moving them into consultations. I needed to say it, to move things. I was getting parched. 

So what I'd love to do here at the end is we like to ask our guests [00:28:00] rapid fire questions. So I'm gonna throw a few questions at you and if you could just give us your perspective on each one.

Lee: Okay.

David: So first one, what is one thing people don't give enough value or attention to in leadership?

Lee: The guidance and support for salespeople by developing process. I find that sales leaders are much more directive than prescriptive. Like the example I shared with my boys, hit home runs, well, if you don't teach me how to hit home runs, I can't do it. So that's an opportunity that I find a lot of companies are missing is to provide that process, that framework that helps salespeople be successful as quickly as possible.

David: Love it. What's one skill you advise everyone in sales to master?

Lee: Well, there's three common conversations that take place. So what's the most critical sales skill? Is it listening? Is it asking questions? Is it the gift of gab, talking? And people on the outside of sales looking in say talking, like, if you have the gift of gab, they say you should be in sales. [00:29:00] 

People in the sales world say listening is the most critical sales skill, and I disagree with both. You heard I'm a sales contrarian. I believe the most critical sales skill is asking thoughtful, insightful questions, so there's something meaningful to listen to, and then you can share information appropriately.

David: Love it. Favorite business, leadership or sales book outside of yours?

Lee: The Go-Giver by Bob Burg. I've gifted that to a number of people over the years.

David: That's a great book. Favorite quote, mantra or saying that inspires you as a sales leader?

Lee: Okay, so this is one. I'm gonna guess you haven't heard this one before. I'd rather have part of a watermelon than all of a grape. Have you heard that one before? But you get the visual.

David: I love it. Yeah. Sort of related to that, Tony Hsieh who started [00:30:00] Zappos, said, more important than sometimes your skills at playing poker's choosing the right table to sit at.

Lee: Yes.

David: What is the most important goal or project you're working on right now?

Lee: Well, my most important piece of my world is my family and my daughter is getting married in January, so my most important project is wedding planning.

David: That's important and stressful and fun. Congratulations, Lee. 

Lee: Thank you.

David: Well, that is all the time we have here. So Lee, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. I loved your talk last month. Appreciate you coming down to South Florida. And so if folks wanna connect with you, how do they do it?

Lee: Yeah, so if you go to firstmeetingbook.com, you can download the first chapter from The First Meeting Differentiator. If you buy the book and it's for sale wherever you like to buy books, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, go back to that website firstmeetingbook.com. I'm [00:31:00] offering a special private masterclass series, three masterclasses exclusively for book purchasers to help you implement what you read ahead.

David: That's amazing. Well, thank you again, Lee, for joining us. Listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. Really appreciate everyone's time. If you haven't subscribed yet, please subscribe on your platform of choice and you can always hit me up on LinkedIn with a DM with any topics, questions you have for me. 

But thanks everyone and appreciate it, Lee.